If you don't believe in God, and it turns out he is real, with Heaven and all, then your going to wish you'd belive in God.
If you believe in God, and nothing happens, nothing lost, nothing gained.
simple as that.
Uh: I see
the way I see it
is that why, out of anything, would the Christian God be the real one? Why not the Hindu gods? or the Greek Gods? or whatever?
who's to say one isn't as likely as the next?
me: That is a very good point,
Uh: I've been waiting to use that in the CFOL..
never found a good chance though
in the conversion topic, you have a good chance
I bet so..
also, I have something I call the Epicurus bomb
Uh: not sure if it'll work though
it criticizes the whole concept of God in a way
Uh: I'll get you the quote
and see what you think
here it is:
Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is god able to prevent evil, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god.
he gave us Free Will
Uh: go on..
me: He tests us like that
to see if we're loyal to him and his way
Uh: so evil is a test of our character and loyalty?
me: In a sense, yes.
me: That's what they taught us at Camp
Uh: well, if I was God, I'd test us too
He doesn't want Robots in his Kingdom
he Wants a family
Uh: but that does show God doesn't have as much faith in us, if he thinks he needs to test us.
he has faith in us
Uh: but not so much as he doesn't nee dto test us
me: Well, he knows we're human
and we make mistakes
Uh: your comparison of robots and the like intrigues me
it reminds me of Doctor Who of all things
this guy creates the Cybermen, people's brains taken out and put into robotic bodies
and they don't have free will or anything
and the Doctor asks him what is the point of all that?
there isn't any pay off of ruling a world with no people
just you, and things that follow your orders
why would you want the world to be like that?
so, perhaps that's what God was thinking when he made free will (assuming, as always, God exists, for me)
So, I mean, it all depends on how you look at it.
Uh: I guess so
me: there was this book, called Adrift, it's a true story
Uh: this here is the exact opposite of the CFOL..
calm and civilized
me: of a guy stranded on a little raft
with a speargun
and the speargun fired 12 feet
so the fish would get within 12 feet of range
so he was only able to shot 6 feet
so the fish moved up to 6 feet, but that's as close as they'd get
then, something else broke, so he could only fish 3 feet
so the fish go up to three feet
then, he's so tired and stuff, and the gun is completely broken
that the fish would barley float up to the surface and let him grab them.
in the end, the Guy said that, although I'm an Athiest, I know for a fact someone or something was watching after me.
Uh: wonder why the fish did that..
me: so he could eat.
the guy was at sea for three months
Uh: yea, but why would the fish, who also have free will, in a way, willingly sacrafice themselves?
to us, fish aren't that important
but to a fish, the fish is most important
I don't know
Uh: we're just another thing roaming the world
me: but there was another time,
these guys were stranded
Uh: WW2.. interesting
me: for a few weeks
with hardly anything to eat
so one of them prayed
and when he was about to finish his prayer, a seagull landed on on his head
and it let him catch it
it didn't try and break free
Uh: I don't get it. Why would a bird commit suicide like that?
I can see a human doing it, but not a bird
animal survival instincts are strong...
I'm not sure
lost my train of thought
but that's the thing
Those Stories are true
not sure what to think of them
on one hand, it does look like some mystical power at work
on the other...;
it doesn't make sense
me: I could go on to question the validity of Evolution, with things that could've been developed over generations.
Uh: you could
and I could argue against you
there are millions, billions, probably, of unknown bacteria and viruses, that might cause the brain to work in dangerous ways
in South America, there'sa fungus that takes over an insects brain
and makes it climb to the top of a tree
where a bird will eat it, and the fungus get's a free ride to a new location
definately not natural at first glance
why would the insect commit suicide?
but, it's the fungus that is in control
me: Maybe that could be seen as to why the Fish went closer and closer
me: only it wasn't, per se, fungus
Uh: maybe somehting else
like a virus
me: Or just something they were doing
they didn't know why
but they were.
Uh: it could go either way
there's no solid proof aside from what the stories say
me: but then again, in certain senses, there is no solid proof about evolution
Uh: you sure?
me: well, I can ask you this.
I lost my train of thought
me: it'll come back in a sec
Uh: well, let me make my point that
Uh: bacteria, a much smaller and simpler form of life, have been seen to start resisting antibiotics, when before, they hadn't. The resistant ones live and reproduce, the non resistant ones are killed
what's causing them to adapt and resist?
me: But then I'll argue this.
there is enough DNA on a pinhead to stack books to the moon 50 times, I believe
it's hard to believe that was all by chance
Uh: protiens are long chains of amino acids. Amino acids are put together using a series of anti codons and codons in the RNA. RNA is made from DNA
And, for each amino acid
there is 3 codons, and 3 anti-codons, multiple combinations for each acid
all that information is stored in the DNA
and when you have protiens that have hundreds of amino acids (just for one protien), multiple those hundreds by three (for the codons)
you start to get big numbers
all that information has to be kept in the DNA
that's why there's so much
now, in the beginning, there was nothing, correct?
Uh: just to let you know, I'm a skeptic of the big bang as well
Uh: I will admit I have no idea how this all happened
not all happened, all began
that's the word
Uh: I have no idea how everything began, because at this time, we simply can't understand it
perhaps in a thousand years we will, but not right now, and I'm fine with that
it's like lightning
a long time ago, we had no idea what is was, back in the days of caves of mammots
but, as science progressed, lightning wasn't the work of supernatural powers like we thought, but actuall negative and positive charges
so, right now we have no idea how the universe began, but maybe, one day, we will know
Uh: there isn't a need, from my veiw, to attrubite it to higher powers
but then, there isn't a need, per se, for alot of things
Uh: if I understand that right, you're saying there isn't need for a lot of things that currently exist?
me: well, in a sense, yes.
I'm not saying I don't use them
nor am I saying we shouldn't use them
Uh: but they're still there
Uh: how I see it, there isn't a need for anything. the only thing you're required to ever do is die
but in that time before you die, that's your time
you do as you please, which, unfortunately, can mean bad as well as good
Uh: genetic information wants to be passed on
but we control if it does or doesn't
me: Then, I could also Argue, if Evolution is real, then there was no need for anything, no real purpose
I see no defined purpose to anything
I do see that we have the ability to give things purpose
and we should use that ability wisely
me: So then, I could also Argue that maybe God did that to us
Uh: you could
but that starts in a loop
because you will always argue god, I will always argue against god
thus, this whole exercise has been little more than an adventure into the world of debate
Uh: but it is fun
me: Now, I'll say: While, in senses, you can't 'see' God, per se, in the sense that...
that's pretty obvious
me: But now, I'll say, maybe he tests others by disguising miracles with things that could be argued by Science
Uh: you could say that
but neither of us have proof for or against that
me: Well, now, this may have nothing to do to prove points, per se
at the bottom of the....dead sea? was it
Uh: dead sea is in israel, so probably
that's where all this began
me: they found the remains of carriages and chariots and bodies at the bottom
Uh: wonder how those got there..
me: and they registered it to the Pharoh at the time Moses and the Israelites crossed it
the whole parting of the RED sea?
that was it
Uh: that's the one that they crossed
would be that they crossed at a shallow area with low tides
and when the Egyptians followed
the tides came in, the chariots and stuff got stuck in the mud and water
and they all drowned
I won't argue about the sea of blood
What about the Darkness?
that covered all of Egypt
just find a large enough eruption at the time
me: What about the Death Angel?
Uh: death angel?
what is that again?
on a night of Egypt
God told Moses and the Israelites that that night he was going to passover Egypt, and kill the first born of every door the death angel passed
God said that the Death Angel would pass over the houses that had Lambs blood over them
so the Israelites did that
and they were spared
Uh: here is where I would note: What kind of god has firstborn children killed?
as for death angel
not sure how to scienfitically explain that
Uh: aside from the fact it's been thousands of years since then
me: God, although a merciful God, is also a Jealous God
Uh: I see
he wanted to save the israelites
Uh: so if he can be jealous, he's not all that different from us..
me: God gave the Pharoah many chances to let them go
Uh: jealousy and mercy
to very Human things
if only the CFOL could debate like this....
Uh: if only
but it's full of immature nobs who beleive every single thing they hear
i do debate like that! its just by 11:11 people shout random things at me for proving a point! Permalink