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Let's see how many angers this stirs up while I eat breakfast. Bad things happen when I eat breakfast.
| August 15, 2009, 2:01 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Phaze .
me: well

my way of converting

If you don't believe in God, and it turns out he is real, with Heaven and all, then your going to wish you'd belive in God.
11:07 AM

If you believe in God, and nothing happens, nothing lost, nothing gained.

simple as that.

Uh: I see


the way I see it
11:08 AM
is that why, out of anything, would the Christian God be the real one? Why not the Hindu gods? or the Greek Gods? or whatever?

who's to say one isn't as likely as the next?

me: That is a very good point,


11:09 AM
Uh: I've been waiting to use that in the CFOL..

never found a good chance though

me: lol


in the conversion topic, you have a good chance

Uh: ah

I bet so..

also, I have something I call the Epicurus bomb

me: lol

Uh: not sure if it'll work though

it criticizes the whole concept of God in a way
11:10 AM
me: hmm.....


Uh: I'll get you the quote

and see what you think

here it is:

Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is god able to prevent evil, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god.
11:11 AM
me: Because

he gave us Free Will


Uh: go on..

me: He tests us like that

to see if we're loyal to him and his way

*Him, His

Uh: so evil is a test of our character and loyalty?

me: In a sense, yes.
11:12 AM
Uh: hmm...

me: That's what they taught us at Camp

Uh: well, if I was God, I'd test us too

me: exactly


He doesn't want Robots in his Kingdom

he Wants a family

Uh: but that does show God doesn't have as much faith in us, if he thinks he needs to test us.

me: no

he has faith in us

Uh: but not so much as he doesn't nee dto test us
11:13 AM
me: Well, he knows we're human

and we make mistakes


Uh: brb

me: K
11:14 AM
Uh: back

me: cool

Uh: your comparison of robots and the like intrigues me
11:15 AM
it reminds me of Doctor Who of all things

this guy creates the Cybermen, people's brains taken out and put into robotic bodies

and they don't have free will or anything

and the Doctor asks him what is the point of all that?
11:16 AM
there isn't any pay off of ruling a world with no people

there's nothing

just you, and things that follow your orders

why would you want the world to be like that?
11:17 AM
so, perhaps that's what God was thinking when he made free will (assuming, as always, God exists, for me)

me: yeah

So, I mean, it all depends on how you look at it.
11:18 AM
Uh: I guess so

me: there was this book, called Adrift, it's a true story

Uh: this here is the exact opposite of the CFOL..

calm and civilized

me: of a guy stranded on a little raft

with a speargun

and the speargun fired 12 feet

so the fish would get within 12 feet of range

not closed

11:19 AM
not farther


something broke

so he was only able to shot 6 feet

so the fish moved up to 6 feet, but that's as close as they'd get

then, something else broke, so he could only fish 3 feet

so the fish go up to three feet

then, he's so tired and stuff, and the gun is completely broken
11:20 AM
that the fish would barley float up to the surface and let him grab them.

in the end, the Guy said that, although I'm an Athiest, I know for a fact someone or something was watching after me.

Uh: wonder why the fish did that..
11:21 AM
me: so he could eat.



the guy was at sea for three months

Uh: yea, but why would the fish, who also have free will, in a way, willingly sacrafice themselves?

to us, fish aren't that important

but to a fish, the fish is most important

me: lol
11:22 AM
I don't know

Uh: we're just another thing roaming the world

me: but there was another time,

in WW2

these guys were stranded

Uh: WW2.. interesting

me: for a few weeks

with hardly anything to eat

so one of them prayed
11:23 AM
and when he was about to finish his prayer, a seagull landed on on his head

and it let him catch it

it didn't try and break free

Uh: I don't get it. Why would a bird commit suicide like that?

I can see a human doing it, but not a bird

animal survival instincts are strong...
11:24 AM

very odd

me: yeah


I think,

I'm not sure


lost my train of thought

Uh: fail

me: lol

but that's the thing
11:25 AM
Those Stories are true

Uh: hmm...

not sure what to think of them

on one hand, it does look like some mystical power at work
11:26 AM
on the other...;

it doesn't make sense

me: I could go on to question the validity of Evolution, with things that could've been developed over generations.
11:27 AM
Uh: you could

and I could argue against you

there are millions, billions, probably, of unknown bacteria and viruses, that might cause the brain to work in dangerous ways
11:28 AM
in South America, there'sa fungus that takes over an insects brain

and makes it climb to the top of a tree

where a bird will eat it, and the fungus get's a free ride to a new location

definately not natural at first glance

why would the insect commit suicide?
11:29 AM
but, it's the fungus that is in control

me: Maybe that could be seen as to why the Fish went closer and closer

Uh: yea

me: only it wasn't, per se, fungus

Uh: maybe somehting else

like a virus

or parasite

me: Or just something they were doing

they didn't know why

but they were.

Uh: it could go either way
11:30 AM
there's no solid proof aside from what the stories say

me: but then again, in certain senses, there is no solid proof about evolution

Uh: you sure?

me: well, I can ask you this.

Uh: ask
11:31 AM
me: ....


I lost my train of thought


Uh: fail

me: it'll come back in a sec

Uh: well, let me make my point that


me: **then
11:32 AM
Uh: bacteria, a much smaller and simpler form of life, have been seen to start resisting antibiotics, when before, they hadn't. The resistant ones live and reproduce, the non resistant ones are killed

what's causing them to adapt and resist?

me: But then I'll argue this.

there is enough DNA on a pinhead to stack books to the moon 50 times, I believe

it's hard to believe that was all by chance
11:33 AM
Uh: protiens are long chains of amino acids. Amino acids are put together using a series of anti codons and codons in the RNA. RNA is made from DNA

And, for each amino acid
11:34 AM
there is 3 codons, and 3 anti-codons, multiple combinations for each acid

all that information is stored in the DNA

and when you have protiens that have hundreds of amino acids (just for one protien), multiple those hundreds by three (for the codons)

you start to get big numbers
11:35 AM
all that information has to be kept in the DNA

that's why there's so much

me: Ok....
11:36 AM
now, in the beginning, there was nothing, correct?

Uh: just to let you know, I'm a skeptic of the big bang as well

me: ah

Uh: I will admit I have no idea how this all happened



not all happened, all began

that's the word
11:37 AM
me: yeah

Uh: I have no idea how everything began, because at this time, we simply can't understand it

perhaps in a thousand years we will, but not right now, and I'm fine with that

it's like lightning

a long time ago, we had no idea what is was, back in the days of caves of mammots

11:38 AM
but, as science progressed, lightning wasn't the work of supernatural powers like we thought, but actuall negative and positive charges

so, right now we have no idea how the universe began, but maybe, one day, we will know

me: true

Uh: there isn't a need, from my veiw, to attrubite it to higher powers
11:39 AM
me: true,

but then, there isn't a need, per se, for alot of things
11:40 AM
Uh: if I understand that right, you're saying there isn't need for a lot of things that currently exist?

me: well, in a sense, yes.

I'm not saying I don't use them

nor am I saying we shouldn't use them

Uh: but they're still there

me: yes
11:41 AM
Uh: how I see it, there isn't a need for anything. the only thing you're required to ever do is die

but in that time before you die, that's your time

you do as you please, which, unfortunately, can mean bad as well as good

me: yeah.
11:42 AM
Uh: genetic information wants to be passed on

but we control if it does or doesn't

me: Then, I could also Argue, if Evolution is real, then there was no need for anything, no real purpose

Uh: correct

I see no defined purpose to anything
11:43 AM

I do see that we have the ability to give things purpose

and we should use that ability wisely

me: So then, I could also Argue that maybe God did that to us

Uh: you could

but that starts in a loop
11:44 AM
because you will always argue god, I will always argue against god

thus, this whole exercise has been little more than an adventure into the world of debate

me: true...

Uh: but it is fun
11:45 AM
me: Now, I'll say: While, in senses, you can't 'see' God, per se, in the sense that...


that's pretty obvious

Uh: yea

me: But now, I'll say, maybe he tests others by disguising miracles with things that could be argued by Science

Uh: you could say that
11:46 AM
but neither of us have proof for or against that

me: Well, now, this may have nothing to do to prove points, per se


at the bottom of the....dead sea? was it

Uh: dead sea is in israel, so probably
that's where all this began
11:47 AM
me: they found the remains of carriages and chariots and bodies at the bottom

Uh: wonder how those got there..

me: and they registered it to the Pharoh at the time Moses and the Israelites crossed it

Uh: oh!

the whole parting of the RED sea?

me: yesh

that was it

Uh: that's the one that they crossed
11:48 AM
scientific explanation

would be that they crossed at a shallow area with low tides

and when the Egyptians followed

the tides came in, the chariots and stuff got stuck in the mud and water

and they all drowned
11:49 AM
me: hmmm

I won't argue about the sea of blood
11:50 AM
What about the Darkness?

that covered all of Egypt

Uh: darkness?

volcano ash

just find a large enough eruption at the time

me: What about the Death Angel?

Uh: death angel?
11:51 AM
enlighten me

what is that again?

me: Ok

on a night of Egypt

God told Moses and the Israelites that that night he was going to passover Egypt, and kill the first born of every door the death angel passed

11:52 AM
God said that the Death Angel would pass over the houses that had Lambs blood over them

so the Israelites did that

and they were spared
11:53 AM
Uh: here is where I would note: What kind of god has firstborn children killed?

as for death angel

not sure how to scienfitically explain that

me: Well

Uh: aside from the fact it's been thousands of years since then

me: God, although a merciful God, is also a Jealous God

Uh: I see

me: and
11:54 AM
he wanted to save the israelites

Uh: so if he can be jealous, he's not all that different from us..

me: God gave the Pharoah many chances to let them go

Uh: jealousy and mercy

to very Human things

11:55 AM
me: see

if only the CFOL could debate like this....

Uh: if only

but it's full of immature nobs who beleive every single thing they hear

i do debate like that! its just by 11:11 people shout random things at me for proving a point!
| August 15, 2009, 6:44 pm
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